So where does the line get drawn?

[natedoggcata]

Don't worry this isnt some preachy message but I was wondering, is there anything that is absolutely not allowed in Fansadox comics? I would assume underage women is obviously one of them but besides that, I cant really think of anything else that hasn't been fair game. With the disclaimer at the beginning of each comic, would that prevent certain things from happening?

[Thon]

Quite a lot missing/censured actually. Depending on how depraved one are...
No underaged people, no beastality, no canibalism, no snuff (there're people killed in 'action settings', but no one ever being tourtured to death) and much much more. It's all about balancing on a thin edge, not to be banned by the [un]holy bank maffia. Without payment transfers, this site would go under.

Search for posts by ernestgreene (legendary porn buisness figure). He has written several posts explaining the playing field. Might have to look in the Erenisch forum for some of those post though.

http://www.erenischcomics.com/

[ROBERTS]

I've written extensively in regard to the illegally imposed censorship we suffer under, enforced by a banking system gone mad with power and greed. You can check those previous threads for in depth details..

[ROBERTS]

And the actual prohibited list of forbidden acts or even text includes: r@ape. Incest. Kidnap. Abduction. Beastiality (including devils, demons, monsters, aliens). Weapons. NO BLOOD EVER. Killing. Depictions of ANY illegal act. Underage (determined by breast size in illustrations). And others to be determined.
Linking your website to any OTHER website where such content exists is also grounds for immediate termination of all banking services.
This is the "free world"...

[Kul Straff]

Great Topic. I suppose that Roberts can answer this question, about guns and knives, in regard to the "limits".

Can guns and knives be used as threatening elements? Can both be just "placed" on skin, mouth, breasts or ass? Just pressed on the subject as intimidating element, never fired or stabbed. The gun could be not loaded or even be just a toy, and the author could joke about it in the "disclaimer page". Surely there must be several "work arounds" on this issues.

I think the threatening element of "weapons" can't be losed. Threatening and intimidation plays a big role in this trend. And you can't intimidate the "damsel in distress" with a candy bar!
In the good ol' days evil dudes tied the beauty on the rails, and get up on a big ass train locomotive to get the adrenaline flow! That's what I call threatening a damsel! Those were the days!

[ROBERTS]

We are all on thin ice in these times...
At DoFantasy, we "push" the boundaries quite a bit..and it's a very obvious and plain deal.
How much your particular billing bank manages to "look the other way" is directly related to how much
money you are flowing into his pocket. this is simple reality.
But now that American security agencies have every bit of communication and internet routed through THEIR
computers and see everything, it is a tricky environment. Government and their Banker Owners see EVERYTHING.
No weapon should be threatening a bound helpless girl. Touch her, or pointed at her. The Bank can end your life
online if they choose to, if you push this "rule"..
As for your pics, the girls are not naked and gagged or f@cked or penetrated in any way...so the "pornography"
element does not exist technically. Watch US television shows for bound girls in all sort of bound peril..but never sexual.
See, Uli Roth can hang a naked bound gagged girl by her ankles in a dungeon (in a "Hostel" movie), cut her throat, and have another naked girl bathe in the shower of blood under her on the floor...but we can't. We don't dare. Credit Cards are the established and only way to get paid online, and if we do such things, the Banks, under orders of the US Department of Homeland Security, will shut off your bank accounts and stop your card billing. Oh, and keep your money for 6 months.

[fernandofan]

So, I may have the names wrong, don't Slasher and Zerns create extreme snuff comics? Why is their brand of murder r@ape not banned?

[Naj]

I recently asked Bego what the limits are, and here is verbatim what she provided (with some minor adjustments to the forbidden words):

"About the forbiden Here is a list of words/situations not to use:
‘r@pe(d)’, ‘r@pist’, ‘f0rced (sex)’, ‘(chl0r0)form(ed)’, ‘kidn4p –er –ped
–ping’, ‘!ncest’, Use other words with similar meanings: f@ck, Shag, punish,
take. catch, etc
No bestiality at all.
No underage (18)
No extreme violence, extreme pain, extreme flogging (severe beating) leading to
bloodshed or bleeding. This includes serious bodily injury, self inflicted body
mutilation or that inflicted on others, live piercing, cannibalism, blood
consumption, gore, vampire fetish, etc.; be it real, simulated or implied."

So near as I can figure it basically means what Roberts said: forbidden words, no bestiality, no underage, no blood under any circumstances.

It does lead to some nonsensical moments, such as bloodless piercings, and a bit of convolution regarding dialogue/narration. It's a bit like how cartoon shows in the 1980s/90s or thereabouts were not allowed to use "kill" which resulted in a great deal of liberal usage of the word "destroy" instead.

With a bit of creativity, these rules can be played around with, but it does require some pretty stern treading of the exact rules, bloodless piercings being the aforementioned example: the girl is pierced, but she does not bleed. I suppose knives and guns can be used as threatening elements so long as they are either never used/fired, at least on panel - I recently worked on one comic that "$nuffed" a girl via catapult. It showed her in the catapult, flying overhead in the air as she was launched, about to land aaaaaaannd then switched to an underground tunnel followed by a very large sound FX from "above." We all know what happened, but no blood was shown, so near as I can tell it was fine.

Every so often, I do work on comics that don't follow these rules to the letter, but those are from established artists, and I think those cases are the exception that prove the rule.

I think Roberts is ultimately right: you can push the boundaries, but there is definite risk involved, and it depends on how far the artist is willing to go.

Personally, I think there's been too much pussyfooting around lately. Not that I'm advocating a return to the days of Fansadox "Sickest" (not as though those would ever be produced in this day and age), but there's a lot of ground that still remains virgin and unexplored.

Innuendo intended.

[fernandofan]

Thanks for the clarification. I suppose that comics that I have seen in the past that did show blood and violence inflicted by guns and sharp objects and openly used the word r@ape were created prior to everyone knowing what the ground rules were? When were these ground rules established? Roberts has written about how he is considered a "terrorist" in the USA because of what he draws---does that mean that all of your artists live outside of the USA? If what Roberts says is a fact, I cannot see how any bdsm artist can work and reside in the States. Also, if some comics did break "the rules", is it okay to still sell them, or are they now off the market?

[Naj]

I should probably start by saying this is largely speculation and educated guesses on my part; I'm merely an "independent contractor" working for Dofantasy and have neither the numbers nor the historical knowledge to back it up. Roberts might have a better gauge on the issue as he seems more plugged in and perhaps can shed his own experience.

With a bit of historical information provided by Roberts in another thread (see here: http://dofantasyforum.com/viewtopic.php ... 9&start=20), when the spiritual predecessor to Dofantasy was a mere small, pulp magazine published in Spain called FANSADOX was most likely when there were no real ground rules and a great deal of experimentation was done, most visible by the large variety of legacy comics, most visible here: (http://www.dofantasy.com/english/comics05.htm). The most blatant examples of these legacy comics violating current rules is #8, Apeworld by Cagri, that wouldn't fly due to being labeled b3astiality today. Whether it exists merely as a legacy comic or an oversight, as you yourself have noticed, many of the earlier comics flaunted these rules. Given it was a physical print media of little renown, FANSADOX most likely could get away with this for the same reasons as any pre-internet fetish magazine could: being small enough to fly under the radar.

Of course the biggest offenders were FANSADOX SICKEST, no longer available for purchase (see http://www.dofantasy.com/english/comics03.htm as proof). I've seen a few of these and... they're not for the faint-hearted, I'll say that much. Blood and organs, and I'll let your imagination take it from there.

Hearkening back to Roberts' posts, most likely during the various anti-obscenity laws and high-minded actions of the Bush 2 administration back in the states in the early/mid 2000s would probably represent the demarcation point. I'm not sure when this occurred on the comic publication continuum, but around that time period would most likely be when the groundwork for "the rules" started being laid down in order to allow Dofantasy to continue to operate. By 2011, when I was brought on board as a writer by Nuria, the rules were more or less in place which Nuria helped remind me on more than one occasion. I suspect that because Dofantasy follows these rules, at least in publicly accessible sites like the sales website (Nuria was quite strict about not using the forbidden words in sales copy), it continues to be barely acceptable even though occasional violations slip through the cracks. Those violations are not noticed because they exist inside the comics which is not for public dissemination, at least not on the Dofantasy website. So long as we continue to follow the rules for all intents and purposes, we should be fine, but as Roberts said, we are treading on thin ice.

Given my only contact with the company is Bego, I couldn't say whether or not most/all of the artists work/reside outside the USA.

Once again, this is largely speculation and educated guesses on my part, and I don't claim total accuracy on any point outside my own experience.